Archive for May, 2007

Bush offers to take 60,000 Bhutan refugees

May 19, 2007

Patrick Cleburne at Vdare writes about an offer by George W. Bush and Condoleeza Rice to bring 60,000 refugees from Bhutan to the U.S.

http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2007/05/19/2645/

U.S. offer to Bhutan refugees fuels tension
Reuters India Thu May 17, 2007

Over 3,000 Americans have died in Iraq.  George W. Bush and Condoleeza Rice have no loyalty to those who died.   They didn’t die for Bush and Rice to break America’s middle class and America and then tell God, “Let’s see if you can fix what we’ve broken.”

http://antiwar.com/casualties/ 

Also a reminder:

Virginia Beach Teens Killed at Intersection

[Brenda Walker] @ 3:59 pm [Email author] [Email This Article] [Print This Article]


Ramos had a prior DUI conviction in Chesapeake this year, so if Rep. Sue Myrick’s Scott Gardner Act had been law, he would have been immediately deported for being a drunk-driving illegal alien. The legislation, originally written in 2005, has been resubmitted in this Congress as HR1355.

Below (at link), Tessa Tranchant, 16, left, and Allison Kunhardt, 17, were killed late Friday.

http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2007/04/03/virginia-beach-teens-killed-at-intersection/

At Firesociety

Bush Senate Amnesty: Vendetta on Buchanan Perot voters for ‘92, ‘00 betrayals?

May 17, 2007

In the New York Times, RICHARD L. BERKE as Published: September 30, 1999 wrote about “Mr. Bush’s display of a festering resentment toward Mr. Perot and Mr. Buchanan”. Is Bush’s amnesty and legal immigration program part of this resentment? Did Bush have two vendettas when he became president, get Saddam Hussein for the attempt on his father’s life and get the Buchanan Perot voters for betraying his father in 1992 and causing his election defeat?

Bush Speaks of Perot and Buchanan Acting in ‘Vendetta’

Gov. George W. Bush sternly denounced Ross Perot and Patrick J. Buchanan today, suggesting that ”personal vendettas” may be driving their apparent alliance to have Mr. Buchanan seek the Reform Party nomination. Mr. Bush asserted that both men helped undermine his father’s unsuccessful campaign for re-election to the White House in 1992.

I’ve always thought the 1992 campaign was hard for my dad to get traction in the race because of, first, Patrick J. Buchanan, and then Ross Perot inflicted a series of cuts,” Mr. Bush said in a response to questions at a news conference in a two-day campaign swing in this state. ”If the adage is true — you die a death of a thousand cuts in politics — Ross Perot was a part of the thousand cuts.

Mr. Bush’s display of a festering resentment toward Mr. Perot and Mr. Buchanan was unusual in a campaign in which Mr. Bush has tried to strike an accommodating tone to win over a broad spectrum of voters.

Are Lou Dobbs Democrats taken from the Buchanan Perot voters, and now Bush focuses his resentment on them as well? Buchanan Perot voters voted against Bush Sr in 1992. They voted against Bush Jr. as governor of Texas, and Perot voters consider Perot a real Texican and Bush Jr. to be a Yale man carpetbagger. Pat Buchanan voters voted against Bush Sr. in 1992 and against Bush Jr. in 2000.

Buchanan voters caused the election to go to the Supreme Court. If they had all voted for Bush Jr. as they are supposed to, there would have been no problem in 2000.

http://clerk.house.gov/member_info/electionInfo/2000election.pdf

Florida page 13:

Republican (Bush) 2,912,790

Democrat (Gore) 2,912,253

Reform (Buchanan) 17,484

Bush won, officially, by 537 votes. Pat Buchanan got 17,484 votes. So if Buchanan had not run, Bush would have won without the recount mess.

1992 Election

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?f=0&year=1992

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1992

William Jefferson Clinton 43.0%

George H. W. Bush 37.4%

H. Ross Perot 18.9%

So if Perot had not run in 1992, Bush Sr. would have won, Bush Jr. can tell himself. It was the Buchanan Perot voters who betrayed Bush Sr. in 1992 and Bush Jr. in 2000. They are disloyal and Bush Jr. resents them. Or so we might infer. Bush Jr. ignored the warning signs before 9-11. After 9-11, he has done almost nothing to secure the borders or protect the people from immigration.

In 1992 and 2000, Buchanan Perot voters voted against immigration. They realize its harming them in wages and economic prosperity. Bush Jr. wants to fulfill his second vendetta, the first being against Saddam, on these voters by amnesty and legal immigration?


1996 election results wiki

Clinton 49.2

Dole 40.7

Perot 8.4

So Clinton picked up 6 percentage points from 1992 to 1996 from Perot. That is one way to define or measure Democrat votes taken by Perot, this is one way to measure the Lou Dobbs Democrats.

==

The following article makes the argument that it was the Perot voter who voted the Democrats into control of Congress in 2006.

Perot’s Revenge

“Put simply, 2006 saw the return of the Perot voter: economically populist, socially moderate voters with highly nationalist tendencies. Had the Democrats not courted candidates who fit this mold in a number of high profile races, Republicans would almost certainly control the Senate right now if not the House. Democratic candidates like Webb, McCaskill, Casey, and Tester all won by appealing to this specific group of voters who found themselves once again disenchanted with a Republican Party led by a president named Bush.”

“My guess is this group is also anti-free trade and strongly opposed to the president’s immigration plan. Again, Perotism rises 14 years later to defeat another guy named Bush.”

“The new Democratic majority has these voters to thank for its ascendancy. Without their votes in the industrial north, west, and midwest, Republicans would still be in charge.
… This gives Republicans a real shot at winning these voters back if the Boxerites take over the party the way they did after these same Perot types voted Democrat back in 1992 and watched as the party veered to the far left.”

Note, the odd question marks in the original were edited out.

Buchananites, Perot Voters, Nader Greens, Lou Dobbs Democrats. The name changes but the dissatisfaction with the two headed monster stays the same? And its because of bipartisan opposition to the American people on immigration, jihad, etc? The bipartisan jihad on the middle class is finally catching up with the two party duopoly as Nader calls it?

==

Many Bush Jr. administration appointees were from Bush Sr. administration. But many of these disliked Reagen Republicans and Reagen Democrats starting in or even before 1988.

Departing ship
By Daniel Gallington
May 19, 2007 Washington Times

In a nutshell, many of the “Bush I” people disliked the Reagan people because the Reaganites thought many of the Bush people second-rate.
In addition, many of the Bush I people tried very hard to be Reagan people and were not allowed in, not even during the second Reagan term, or even during the last half of the second Reagan term. Result? These were people with serious chips on their shoulders, especially for the Reagan-era traditional Republicans.

Talking Points Against: H.R. 1645 Flake-Gutierrez Amnesty STRIVE Act

May 13, 2007

Call your Senator Monday May 14, 2007. The Senate is brokering an amnesty expanded guest worker, family reunification anchor baby busting bill. Be polite but firm. No legalization of any kind. No guest worker, and eliminate current guest worker. Pause in all legal immigration. End family reunification. No asylum from anywhere. No restart of legal immigration without a national referendum. Point out this is one of the few votes that people remember.

==S 2611 Home page:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN02611:

How your Senator voted for S. 2611 you can look up here. Know this and bring it up. Its important they know this is a vote you remember.

Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs —62
Akaka (D-HI) Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Bennett (R-UT) Biden (D-DE) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Brownback (R-KS) Cantwell (D-WA) Carper (D-DE) Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY) Coleman (R-MN) Collins (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Craig (R-ID) Dayton (D-MN) DeWine (R-OH) Dodd (D-CT) Domenici (R-NM) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Feinstein (D-CA) Frist (R-TN) Graham (R-SC) Gregg (R-NH) Hagel (R-NE) Harkin (D-IA) Inouye (D-HI) Jeffords (I-VT) Johnson (D-SD) Kennedy (D-MA) Kerry (D-MA) Kohl (D-WI) Landrieu (D-LA) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (D-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) Lugar (R-IN) Martinez (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Menendez (D-NJ) Mikulski (D-MD) Murkowski (R-AK) Murray (D-WA) Nelson (D-FL) Obama (D-IL) Pryor (D-AR) Reed (D-RI) Reid (D-NV) Sarbanes (D-MD) Schumer (D-NY) Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA) Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs —36
Alexander (R-TN) Allard (R-CO) Allen (R-VA) Bond (R-MO) Bunning (R-KY) Burns (R-MT) Burr (R-NC) Byrd (D-WV) Chambliss (R-GA) Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Cornyn (R-TX) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) Dole (R-NC) Dorgan (D-ND) Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Grassley (R-IA) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Isakson (R-GA) Kyl (R-AZ) Lott (R-MS) Nelson (D-NE) Roberts (R-KS) Santorum (R-PA) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL) Stabenow (D-MI) Sununu (R-NH) Talent (R-MO) Thomas (R-WY) Thune (R-SD) Vitter (R-LA)

Not Voting – 2

Rockefeller (D-WV) Salazar (D-CO)

==Some questions to ask them

How many calls for amnesty how many against

How many callers for guest worker how many against

How many callers for H-1B against

==

Search Flake Gutierrez

==Vdare:

James Fulford

http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2007/03/25/text-of-strive-act-exclusive-2/

H.R. 1645, the Security Through Regularized Immigration and a Vibrant Economy (STRIVE) Act — introduced in the House of Representatives on March 22, 2007 by Rep. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) and Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-IL).

March 26, 2007
Call It Treason: Flake-Gutierrez Bill Immigration Insanity And Merger With Mexico
By Juan Mann
==

GPO Version of Bill 1.8MB 697 Pages.

http://flake.house.gov/UploadedFiles/STRIVE%20Overview.pdf

==FireSociety

http://www.firesociety.com/article/11979

Analysis Of Flake-Gutierrez

(Following go to their website)

1. Mass Amnesty
2. Dramatic Increase in Legal Immigration
3. Hundreds of thousands of “new” workers each year
4. “Tough” Enforcement Provisions? Hardly
5. “Tough” Electronic Employment Verification? Hardly
6. Certification of Border Security? Not really

2.DRAMATIC INCREASE IN LEGAL IMMIGRATION

  • The American people overwhelmingly reject increased levels of legal immigration, which are already at about 1 million persons every year. However, the Flake-Gutierrez bill will likely double legal immigration levels at the least. A very conservative estimate puts the bill’s increase at about 700,000 additional green cards a year – as family preference green cards increase by a quarter million a year, employment-based green cards increase by 150,000, and an unlimited number of green cards are provided for spouses and children of employment-based immigrants (currently, about one dependent accompanies each such immigrant). However, the actual increase will likely be dramatically higher. Why? The bill creates additional categories with unlimited numbers of green cards available each year – such as for foreign workers who will work in any occupation the Secretary of Labor declares has a shortage of workers, and for many foreign workers with graduate degrees. (sections 501, 508) In addition, the bill allows any alien already in the U.S. on a temporary visa who ends up on an employment-based green card waiting list because the cap has been reached to stay and work in the U.S. for however long it takes for a green card to become available – which would have the practical effect of making any employment-based cap illusory. (section 511)
  • The quota for H-1B temporary visas for professional workers increases from 65,000 to a maximum of 180,000 a year. In addition, all aliens with graduate degrees from U.S. universities are exempt from the quota, as are all aliens with foreign graduate degrees in math or science fields. This will have the effect of doubling the quota to about 360,000 a year, since about half of all H-1B aliens have graduate degrees. (section 507)

Currently, the President decides each year on the number of refugees to allow into the U.S. who we have determined have a well founded fear of persecution. The Flake-Gutierrez bill gives non-U.S. organizations the absolute right to send a potentially limitless number of persons to the U.S. Foreign organizations will be able to direct to the U.S. government most any woman anywhere in the world who has a “credible fear of harm related to her sex” – and we will have no choice but to accept them. This standard is so low that conceivably every women in the 3rd World will have an absolute right to come to the U.S. No showing of persecution is necessary. Similar rights are granted any alien under 18 who has a “credible fear of harm related to his or her age”. This standard is so low that conceivably every minor in the 3rd World will have an absolute right to come to the U.S. (section 517)
Back to top.

3. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF “NEW” WORKERS EACH YEAR

  • The Flake-Gutierrez bill allows 400,000 “new workers” plus an unlimited number of spouses and minor children to come to the U.S. in the first year, and that figure can easily reach 600,000 (plus spouses and minor children) in future years. The foreign workers can stay for up to six years. The workers’ employers can apply for green cards for them at any time, and the workers can apply on their own after having worked in the program for five years. Once the green card applications are filed, the workers can stay and work as long as it takes for a green card to become available. Thus, there could be many millions of these foreign workers and their families in the country at any one time in the future. (sections 401, 407)
  • The bill allows former illegal immigrants and aliens who have been previously removed to become “new” workers. (section 402)

Employers are specifically allowed to lay-off American workers and replace them with “new” foreign workers as long as they lay-off the Americans more than 90 days before or after they file the petitions for the foreign workers. (section 402)
Back to top.

==
Press Release of Senator Sessions

Sessions Critiques New House Immigration Bill

Thursday, March 22, 2007

Sessions Critiques New House Immigration Bill

WASHINGTON – U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) today issued the following statement concerning introduction of an immigration bill by U.S. Reps. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) and Luis Gutierrez (D-IL):

“The legislation introduced today by Reps. Flake and Gutierrez is not an acceptable foundation for this year’s immigration reform efforts. Many of their ideas are modeled on provisions contained in the fatally flawed Senate immigration bill from last Congress. Just like the failed Senate bill, the Flake-Gutierrez bill dramatically increases permanent immigration levels, contains a guaranteed path to citizenship for the illegal alien population and creates a new “temporary” worker program that is anything but temporary. All of these ideas failed to gain enough support to become law during the last Congress.

“We can treat the illegal alien population compassionately without placing them on an automatic path to citizenship, and we can create a temporary worker program that is truly temporary.

“It is an undeniable fact that more people want to come to the United States than we can accept. If members of the illegal alien population or future foreign workers want to apply for green cards, they should have to compete for them in a merit-based system – one that lets people all over the world apply to come here under the same set of rules.

“I am disappointed in the Flake-Gutierrez proposal. However, I am still hopeful that we can pass an immigration bill this Congress.”

Specifically, the Flake-Gutierrez proposal:

• Dramatically increases annual permanent immigration levels: The Flake-Gutierrez bill escalates the numerical caps on green cards, supposedly for the purpose of “reducing backlogs” and allowing more high skilled workers to come to and remain in the U.S.

• Puts the illegal alien population on a path to citizenship: The bill will grant “conditional status” to members of the illegal alien population for six years, allowing them to live and work in the United States and to freely travel back and forth across the border. After six years, if they have “touched back” across the border, they will be eligible for legal permanent residence, likely outside of any numerical caps. Legal permanent residents are all eligible for citizenship.

• Creates a “temporary” worker program that is not temporary: Bill sponsors claim that the bill creates a “temporary” worker program. However, just like it was last year, this label is a misnomer. In reality, the program is a new low-skilled permanent immigration program for at least 400,000 new foreign workers and their families per year. Workers and their families will stay for three years, renew their status for another three years and then be able to apply for green cards. In just the first six years, if workers brings a single family member with them, the bill’s “temporary” program will result in 4,800,000 new low-skilled immigrants living in the United States on a path to permanent residence and citizenship.

==End Press Release Senator Sessions

See also:
Call Your Senator No Amnesty: Talking Points HUTCHISON-PENCE PLAN

On May 14 Call Senator John Warner VA to vote against Amnesty

Call Your Senator No Amnesty: Talking Points HUTCHISON-PENCE PLAN

May 12, 2007

Call your senator Monday May 14, 2007 to say no amnesty. This article discusses what to say if they bring up the HUTCHISON-PENCE PLAN from 2006. The Senate is negotiating an amnesty legalization guest worker expanded legal immigration plan behind closed doors. To throw you off, they have had staffers talk up the Hutchinson Pence plan from last year.

(A very good analysis of Flake-Gutierrez is here)

From View From the Right, Lawrence Auster:

“Time to start calling our senators Paul Nachman”

Charles T. writes:

The Senate staffer I talked with was pleasant, informed, and actually discussed the issue with me–unlike so many other staffers who are not in the know.

He pointed to the Hutchison-Pence immigration bill being touted as bridging the divide in the Republican party on this issue. Summarizing, the bill allows for 1) security measures at the border , 2) SELF–DEPORTATION of illegal immigrants to their home countries over a two year period, 3) then the process of applying to work in the US for a specified amount of time, complete with tamper proof ID cards, and a long 17 year path to citizenship.

The tone changed slightly when the staffer said emphatically that agricultural and construction concerns were telling the senator they could not fill the jobs in their respective industries. I pointed out that the jobs would be filled if the various industries would pay their American workers a fair wage and that these industries wanted and hired low priced alien labor.

Summary of HP here: http://immigration.about.com/b/a/256072.htm

After border-security strategies are fully in effect and functional, the bill would allow for the Bush-backed guest-worker and employment-verification programs to be implemented.

The government would authorize designated employment services to fill specific job openings with foreign workers from Canada, Mexico and Central American countries that participate in U.S. trade pacts.

Hutchison Pence thus contains a guest worker program. Some Senators such as Jim Webb promised they would vote against any guest worker program. If you live in Virginia, call Jim Webb’s office and tell them you want to hold him to his promise to vote against any bill with guest worker provisions.

July 26, 2006
The Hutchison-Pence Morph: Millions More Mexicans!
By Bryanna Bevens
Immigration Proposal Aims to Bridge Republican Divide

By Jim VandeHei and Charles Babington
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, July 25, 2006; 12:02 PM

allow most of the 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States a chance to work here legally, but only after the government certifies that U.S. borders have been sufficiently secured.

Objection to this:

  1. Illegal and legal Mexican drunk drivers have very high blood alcohol levels and kill Americans. See photo: Tessa Tranchant, 16, left, and Allison Kunhardt, 17, Virginia Beach Teens Killed at Intersection
    [Brenda Walker] Vdare
  2. If its really 11 million, why don’t they put a cap at 11 million, first come, first served?
  3. the 1986 Amnesty resulted in more people getting amnesty than predicted. If they had capped it numerically, that would not have happened.
  4. More people came after the amnesty as illegals because of this amnesty, in fact all the ones now to be amnestied.
  5. How do they have the manpower to check who these people are?
  6. How do they screen out criminals?
  7. What about terrorists?
  8. The Fort Dix Six included illegals. Wouldn’t the Pence Hutchison plan have legalized them?
  9. If they go back to Pakistan, as part of the Pence plan, and then come back here, doesn’t that give them a chance to attend a terrorist training camp? If we do nothing, they can’t leave the country and get terrorist training and come back without having to sneak back in. Aren’t we better off making them stay here illegally then forcing them to go back to Pakistan where they get terrorist training and meet with al Qaeda, the Taliban and even elements of Pakistan’s ISI?
  10. How do they go onto Islamberg to check it out?
  11. Male migrant workers brought their wives and/or children and had kids here and flooded the LA school system, shutting down its ability to provide a good education and causing extreme gang warfare.
  12. Mexican gangs have put out a green light for gang members to shoot any black in LA county on sight, man, woman or child, they don’t have to be a black gang member. This is from Southern Poverty Law Center, an otherwise left wing group that labels those for immigration restriction as bigots, racists, or hate groups.

==Islamberg

Islamberg, New York: “You can hear gunfire up there. I can’t understand why the FBI won’t shut it down” from Jihad Watch

Paul Williams report in Canada Free Press: Islamberg is a branch of Muslims of the Americas Inc., a tax-exempt organization formed in 1980 by Pakistani cleric Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani, who refers to himself as “the sixth Sultan Ul Faqr,” Gilani, has been directly linked by court documents to Jamaat ul-Fuqra or “community of the impoverished,” an organization that seeks to “purify” Islam through violence.

Though primarily based in Lahore, Pakistan, Jamaat ul-Fuqra has operational headquarters in New York and openly recruits through various social service organizations in the U.S., including the prison system. Members live in hamaats or compounds, such as Islamberg, where they agree to abide by the laws of Jamaat ul-Fuqra, which are considered to be above local, state and federal authority. Additional hamaats have been established in Hyattsville, Maryland; Red House, Virginia; Falls Church, Virginia; Macon, Georgia; York, South Carolina; Dover, Tennessee; Buena Vista, Colorado; Talihina, Oklahoma; Tulane Country, California; Commerce, California; and Onalaska, Washington. Others are being built, including an expansive facility in Sherman, Pennsylvania.

Look up your state impact statement at Fairus.org:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchlistda29

Questions:

Does the Chinese Intelligence Service write the H-1B worker provisions it wants and academic regulations it wants, unlimited H-1B, and then get its profs at US universities to forward them to US interest groups who then give them to staffers on their side, who put them in the bill, and then its voted on, and the only people who have read it completely and understood it before its voted on are the Chinese intelligence service employees who wrote it in the first place?

Martin Luther King’s Dream: Wages frozen at 1973 Levels

May 12, 2007

Martin Luther King gave an important speech in the 1960’s where he said that he had a dream. In his dream, the median wages of all groups would forever be restricted to the median wages of all men in 1973, i.e. no group all men, blacks, women, etc. would have median wages higher than men did in 1973.

MLK’s dream would be achieved by the 1965 Immigration Act which was passed after he declared his bold vision that men’s median wages in 1973 would be a ceiling for all time for the median wages of all groups.

Despite this limit on wages, productivity has gone up substantially, and all the extra money goes into stock prices. Wealthy Senators are voting for more guest workers and legalizations to fulfill the dream of stock prices that go up forever, while median wages are stuck at or below men’s median wages in 1973

See p60-231.pdf, (You can find it easily at another time, just search p60-231 or p60-231.pdf and it finds this document, its at census.gov a US government entity), and look at graph on page 18. Its true, men’s median wages are lower than in 1973 and women’s are lower than men’s now. Other data show that black median wages are lower than whites are today, so they are lower than all men’s wages in 1973. Data links at link below:

http://oldatlanticlighthouse.wordpress.com/a-nation-of-lou-dobbs-democrats/

Black median wages data:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/p53b.html

black white median wage graphs

Most of the gap between black and white median wages that was closed, was closed before the 1965 Immigration Act. This happened while all wages compressed together. This is called the Great Compression of wages. It happened during immigration restriction from the 1920 to the 1965 Immigration Act. When all wages compressed together, blacks participated in that and their wages compressed towards that of whites.

The top 1 percent only got 10 percent of national income instead of the 20 percent they got before 1920’s immigration restriction or the 20 percent they get now. Senators are wealthy. They stopped this compression cold by restarting immigration in 1965. They traded off the chance of blacks to compress their wages to whites for higher stock prices in their stock portfolio. Teddy Kennedy is the 8th wealthiest Senator today. He got his wealth by stopping the rise of black wages to equality with white wages.

McCain Kennedy is the Stop Martin Luther King’s Dream Act. It stops King’s dream of equality of black median wages to white median wages. McCain is the 7th wealthiest Senator and Kennedy the 8th. They are stopping blacks from reaching equality with whites in median wages by keeping immigration going. This is what has held blacks from making progress in wages for over 30 years.

Search black median wages “Great Compression”

See NBER paper:

Claudia Goldin, Robert A. Margo

NBER Working Paper No. 3817*
Issued in August 1991
NBER Program(s): LS “Great Compression” site:Vdare.com

December 22, 2006
National Data, By Edwin S. Rubenstein
Increasing Inequality: NY Times’ Krugman Misses The Immigration Dimension

April 06, 2006
National Data, By Edwin S. Rubenstein
The Smoking Bottom Line: Immigration Boosting Profits, Cutting Wages

January 29, 2007
National Data, By Edwin S. Rubenstein
Yes, Tyler, Income Inequality Is Real. And Immigration Is A Cause.

Even WaPo is discovering this

Devaluing Labor
By Harold Meyerson
Wednesday, August 30, 2006; Page A19 Washington Post
black wages site:Vdare.com

Meyerson says that the Great Compression caused the civil rights movement in 1964. This is half-right. In wage space, the civil rights movement happened before 1964. It was caused by immigration restriction and it already happened when black wages compressed to white wages. The 1965 Immigration Act had brought that to an end by the early 1970’s.

Moreover, by freezing all men’s median wages at the 1973 level, black’s median wages stopped going up as well, since what they were pegged to, all men’s median wages, had stopped going up in 1973. So in wage terms, the civil rights movement started with the 1920’s immigration restriction and ended with the 1965 Immigration Act. Civil rights in wages terms died around the same time as MLK was assassinated. But the assassin’s bullet for black wage progress was Ted Kennedy’s 1965 Immigration Act.

But Ted Kennedy is the 8th wealthiest Senator in the Senate today. Stock prices went up. This is because productivity kept going up but wages stagnated at 1973 levels. So the money went into profits so that pushed up stock prices. Kennedy has a huge stock portfolio. “8 Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass) $19,189,049 to $93,043,004 Voted Yes S. 2611″ See table below.

Explaining Black-White Wage Convergence, 1940-1950: The Role of the Great
Compression

Robert A. Margo
Department of Economics
Vanderbilt University

“NEW DATA SHOW EXTRAORDINARY JUMP IN INCOME CONCENTRATION IN 2004″ By Aviva Aron-Dine and Isaac Shapiro for a graph of income share of top 1 percent from 1913 to 2004.


Income Inequality U Shape Timeline

7 of the top 8 wealthiest Senators voted for S. 2611, amnesty, affirmative action, non-deportable crime, and a pathway for the top 1 percent of households to continue to enjoy 20 percent of each year’s income, compared to 10 percent before Kennedy’s 1965 Immigration Act. The only 1 of the top 8 who didn’t vote for S. 2611 didn’t vote, Jay Rockefeller. McCain is 7th and Kennedy 8th in wealth.


Open Secrets

Rank Name Minimum Net Worth Maximum Net Worth

1 Herb Kohl (D-Wis) $219,098,029 to $234,549,004 Voted Yes S. 2611

2 John Kerry (D-Mass) $165,741,511 to $235,262,100 Voted Yes S. 2611

3 Jay Rockefeller (D-WVa) $78,150,023 to $101,579,003 Not Voting S. 2611

4 Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif) $43,343,464 to $98,660,021 Voted Yes S. 2611

5 Lincoln D. Chafee (R-RI) $41,153,105 to $64,096,019 Voted Yes S. 2611

6 Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) $38,198,170 to $90,733,019 Voted Yes S. 2611

7 John McCain (R-Ariz) $25,071,142 to $38,043,014 Voted Yes S. 2611

8 Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass) $19,189,049 to $93,043,004 Voted Yes S. 2611

More data here

Hutchison Pence amnesty and expanded guest worker info here.

Free fax to Congress on hot immigration bills: http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

==See Reference to this article at Vdare:

12 May 2007
Imported nonsense at the National Journal
[Patrick Cleburne] @ 10:45 pm

On May 14 Call Senator John Warner VA to vote against Amnesty

May 11, 2007

It is urgent to get Senator John Warner of Virginia to vote against amnesty. The Senate may reach a compromise early the week of May 14, 2007. You need to call Monday May 14, 2007. If you live in Virginia call Senator Warner to vote against amnesty. Senator Warner is a fence sitter who voted for S. 2611 last year, for amnesty.

Advice from NumbersUSA:

“Always be polite but firm. You can make a very successful call by simply stating your name, where you are calling from, and a couple of brief talking points. Then, free up the line so the next caller can get through.”

We want Warner to vote against whatever bill comes up and to vote against cloture, i.e. vote against cutting off debate. Mention Lou Dobbs and that Lou Dobbs is against the bill. Say you trust and have faith in Lou Dobbs.

Warner has a D from Americans for Better Immigration.

Warner voted for amnesty last year S. 2611:

http://www.senate.gov/~warner/pressoffice/statements/20060525.htm

Warner’s current statement on comprehensive immigration:

http://www.senate.gov/~warner/legislation/antiterrorism/ci.htm

John Warner is the 21st wealthiest Senator.

Net Worth: From $4,858,197 to $7,186,148 Ranks 21st among all members of the Senate”

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsummary.asp?CID=N00002061&year=2005

List of All Senators wealth

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN02611:

Vote for final passage on S. 2611, Amnesty i.e. Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage

A Nation of Lou Dobbs Democrats

==

“NEW DATA SHOW EXTRAORDINARY JUMP IN INCOME CONCENTRATION IN 2004″ By Aviva Aron-Dine and Isaac Shapiro for a graph of income share of top 1 percent from 1913 to 2004.


Income Inequality U Shape Timeline

7 of the top 8 wealthiest Senators voted for S. 2611, amnesty, affirmative action, non-deportable crime, and a pathway for the top 1 percent of households to continue to enjoy 20 percent of each year’s income, compared to 10 percent before Kennedy’s 1965 Immigration Act. The only 1 of the top 8 who didn’t vote for S. 2611 didn’t vote, Jay Rockefeller. McCain is 7th and Kennedy 8th in wealth.


Open Secrets

Rank Name Minimum Net Worth Maximum Net Worth

1 Herb Kohl (D-Wis) $219,098,029 to $234,549,004 Voted Yes S. 2611

2 John Kerry (D-Mass) $165,741,511 to $235,262,100 Voted Yes S. 2611

3 Jay Rockefeller (D-WVa) $78,150,023 to $101,579,003 Not Voting S. 2611

4 Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif) $43,343,464 to $98,660,021 Voted Yes S. 2611

5 Lincoln D. Chafee (R-RI) $41,153,105 to $64,096,019 Voted Yes S. 2611

6 Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) $38,198,170 to $90,733,019 Voted Yes S. 2611

7 John McCain (R-Ariz) $25,071,142 to $38,043,014 Voted Yes S. 2611

8 Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass) $19,189,049 to $93,043,004 Voted Yes S. 2611

More data here

Free fax to Congress on hot immigration bills: http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

==

Immigration doesn’t help the middle class. Men’s median wages are lower than in 1973.

Income, Poverty, and
Health Insurance Coverage in
the United States: 2005

US Census Report on wages By
Carmen DeNavas-Walt
Bernadette D. Proctor
Cheryl Hill Lee

Graph page 18 shows men’s median wages peaked in 1973, they are lower now. Women’s median wages are lower than men’s, which means they are lower than men earned in 1973. Black median wages are lower than all men, which means black wages are lower than what all men made in 1973.

1973 is 35 years ago. When they push immigration after the US government reports wages are stagnant for 35 years it shows they are voting their stock portfolio.

Immigration keeps wages to the 1973 level. That boosts up stock prices, because productivity has gone up since 1973. So the money is going to profits which pushes up stock prices. The leading Senators pushing immigration, McCain and Kennedy are worth 10’s of millions of dollars. They are i the top 1 percent that get 20 percent of the income.

The top 1 percent got 20 percent of income before the 1920’s restriction, 10 percent after, and now get 20 percent with 1965 legal immigration. Kennedy pushed that act and he is now wealthier because his stocks went up.

==

Senate trades our lives and security so that they get 20 dollars of every 100 dollars we create at work instead of the 10 dollars they got before the 1965 Immigration Act.

Worker Productivity Graph and info

Productivity never stopped growing, except possibly during some recessions or odd years from 1947 to present.

1947 to 1973 worker productivity up 2.7 percent per year.

1973 to early 1990’s 1.4 percent per year

1995 to 2004 2.9 percent per year increase in worker productivity.

Yet men’s median wages are lower than in 1973, and the other groups, women, blacks, etc. are lower than all men in 1973.

The workers became more productive, but wages stayed at or below the level of men in 1973.

What changed is that the top 1 percent get 20 percent of every 100 dollars we make now but only got 10 dollars per every 100 before the 1965 Immigration Act.

Scroll down for graph below:


U Shaped Income Inequality Timeline

Stocks boomed. Senator’s wealth boomed.

They are trading off our lives for their stock portfolio.

==

Lower wages, shorter lifetimes data

“Mortality, Education, Income, and Inequality among American Cohorts”

Angus Deaton
Christina Paxson

“People whose family income was less than $5,000 in 1980 could expect to live about 25 percent fewer years than people whose family income was greater than $50,000.”

The Senate is in jihad against middle class wages. The Senate jihad against wages by immigration has also lowered our lifespan. The Senate jihad on wages by immigration kills more Americans than the Senate’s jihad against Americans by importing Muslim jihadis to kill us directly. The indirect killing by lower lifespans kills far more than the Fort Dix type, at least for now.

===

Did immigration cause productivity to go up? No. Productivity was going up from 1947 onwards. If you draw a straight line from 1947 to 2004 its close to the graph anyhow.

The slowdown in productivity growth started in 1973, 8 years after the 1965 Immigration Act.

“The consensus among most economists is that there is no one factor that accounts for that productivity slowdown, but rather that it was the result of a series of different influences that each made a modest contribution and happened to occur at about the same time.”

“Among the factors that are likely to have played some role are increased safety and environmental regulation, reduced investment in productive equipment, and demographic changes , along with a number of other developments.”

Demographic changes is code words for immigration. They are not even allowed to say it.

From:


Productivity Graph and analysis

So we had 2.7 percent productivity growth before immigration. Immigration brought down productivity growth, it didn’t increase it. Moreover, before the 1965 Immigration Act, wages went up with productivity. We got all our increased productivity. That’s our work. After the 1965 Immigration Act, the rich Senator’s got our productivity increases in their stock portfolio.

Men’s median wages stopped growing completely in 1973. Zero growth in wages while productivity goes up substantially shows that markets are undercutting workers.

The income inequality graph proves this as well. The top 1 percent got 20 percent before immigration restriction in the 1920’s, they got 10 percent during restriction up to the 1965 Immigration Act, and now they are back to 20 percent. This shows its immigration that is driving this redistribution from those who create income to those who control income distribution by controlling immigration. Wealth inequality has become even worse than income inequality.

==Two Virginia Beach Teens killed by drunk illegal

Virginia Beach Teens Killed at Intersection [Brenda Walker]

Click on above to see their photo together. For some systems you can use the mouse to put the cursor over the link above and you can see the photo.

Below, Tessa Tranchant, 16, left, and Allison Kunhardt, 17, were killed late Friday.”

Alfredo Ramos, who was born in Mexico of Guatemalan parents, has been in the United States for about seven years.
[Suspect in crash that killed 2 had alcohol-related convictions, Hampton Roads Pilot 4/3/07]

Diversity Is Strength! It’s Also…Immigrant Mass Murder Syndrome” By Brenda Walker

Top Ten Reasons Why the US Should Not Marry Mexico”
By Brenda Walker

== U Md Econ major killed by drunk illegal who fled scene.

A Son, Brother and “Friend with Everyone” Is Killed
[Brenda Walker] @ 7:32 am [Email author] [Email This Article] [Print This Article]
http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2007/05/12/a-son-brother-and-friend-with-everyone-is-killed/

Another bright young person has had his life snuffed out by a drunk-driving illegal alien. Matthew Watson, 20, a sophomore economics major at the University of Maryland, was killed May 5 at 3 am when the Jeep Cherokee in which he was a passenger was struck by a truck driven by Never Leopoldo Navarro-Montoya. The Cherokee driver and two other passengers were hospitalized with injuries considered not life threatening.

The Mexican fled the scene and was found unconscious a third of a mile away on the median strip. Police said Navarro-Montoya possessed a permanent resident card and a Social Security card with his name, which he said were forged and bought in Texas.

The death by illegal alien was the second of a Howard County resident during the last six months. Marine Cpl. Brian Mathews survived a tour of duty in Iraq, but was killed on Thanksgiving night along with his date.

The family has organized two scholarships to honor Matt’s memory — one for a football player to attend summer training camp and the other for a student who participates in music and sports to attend the University of Maryland. The website also has photos and memories of Matt, including the article ‘He was friends with everyone’.

==Also covered here:

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002251.html

=Islam at GMU

http://northernvirginiastan.blogspot.com/

search Northern Virginiastan

Friday, May 11, 2007

GMU – worse than I initially reported

A follow-up to my post Muslim spacehogs at GMU:

UPDATE May 11, 2007: From Snapped Shot via LGF, Brian C. Ledbetter clears up some misperceptions about George Mason U and the Muslim Student Association: for example, not all bathrooms in the Johnson Center have ritual foot-washing basins, but every bathroom in the northeastern half of the building has foot-washing basins. Still doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy.

The original article from Snapped Shot was titled “Some are more equal.” This statement is adapted from the proclamation “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others” made by the ruling pigs in George Orwell’s Animal Farm. A fitting extension of our porcine metaphor.

As noted in a previous article Muslim accomodations on college campuses:

The [Muslim Accomodations Task Force, a project of the Muslim Student Association] isn’t operated by overly enthusiastic college students. Its professional staff, based in the Washington, D.C., area, includes coordinators who provide legal advice, teach students to lobby, write letters on their behalf, and help them overcome “obstacles” such as college administrators’ concerns about violating the separation of church and state.

To learn how local colleges and universities are “accomodating” Muslim demands, visit Muslim Accomodations (East Zone USA) on the MSA National web site.

==

Gates of Vienna Monday, October 10, 2005
Jamaat ul-Fuqra in Virginia, Part 1
by Baron Bodissey

During the Beltway Sniper crisis, back in the fall of 2002, a series of articles in The Washington Times described John Allen Muhammad’s conversion to Islam, and his later break with the Nation of Islam (the articles are no longer available, but extracts have been preserved here). Apparently the NOI was not militant enough for Mr. Muhammad, and he left it to become involved with a group called Jamaat ul-Fuqra (Arabic for “community of the impoverished”), a terrorist organization founded by a notorious Pakistani cleric, Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani.

What drew my eye in the article was the mention of a Jamaat ul-Fuqra compound in Red House, Virginia. Red House?! I know Red House — a small village in rural Charlotte County.

But first: some background on Jamaat ul-Fuqra. The group was founded in New York by Sheikh Gilani in New York in 1980. Its current headquarters is in Hancock, New York, and it has various compounds, or Jamaats, scattered throughout the United States and Canada, notably in Colorado, New York, Tennessee, Georgia, and Virginia. Most of the adherents are reported to be American-born Black Muslims who follow a strict Islamist ideology.

Sheikh Gilani, you may remember, is the cleric with whom Daniel Pearl had arranged an interview back in January of 2002. Unfortunately, Mr. Pearl was betrayed by his sources, and then abducted and beheaded. Sheikh Gilani was arrested later that month and languishes in Pakistani custody.

Virginia Part 2

Virginia Part 3

==Islamberg branches Red House, Virginia; Falls Church, Virginia, Hyattsville, Maryland

Islamberg, New York: “You can hear gunfire up there. I can’t understand why the FBI won’t shut it down” from Jihad Watch
Paul Williams report in Canada Free Press: Islamberg is a branch of Muslims of the Americas Inc., a tax-exempt organization formed in 1980 by Pakistani cleric Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani, who refers to himself as “the sixth Sultan Ul Faqr,” Gilani, has been directly linked by court documents to Jamaat ul-Fuqra or “community of the impoverished,” an organization that seeks to “purify” Islam through violence.

Though primarily based in Lahore, Pakistan, Jamaat ul-Fuqra has operational headquarters in New York and openly recruits through various social service organizations in the U.S., including the prison system. Members live in hamaats or compounds, such as Islamberg, where they agree to abide by the laws of Jamaat ul-Fuqra, which are considered to be above local, state and federal authority. Additional hamaats have been established in Hyattsville, Maryland; Red House, Virginia; Falls Church, Virginia; Macon, Georgia; York, South Carolina; Dover, Tennessee; Buena Vista, Colorado; Talihina, Oklahoma; Tulane Country, California; Commerce, California; and Onalaska, Washington. Others are being built, including an expansive facility in Sherman, Pennsylvania.

Some 9-11 terrorists used Maryland and Virginia for their final staging.

==

Look up your state impact statement at Fairus.org:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchlistda29

==

Numbers USA lets you fax your Congressman and Senator for free on stopping the amnesty bill for illegals and reducing legal immigration.

NumbersUSA

You can register without paying money. You click on buttons to send faxes once you enter your personal info. You can send faxes to each Senator and your rep by clicking buttons. They have them already written out.

You can stop chain migration which lets jihadis come through arranged marriage. You can stop illegal amnesty which will help other jihadis.

“NumbersUSA’s 314,000 activist members are contacting their Senators and asking them to honor the pro-worker spirit of the Commission, chaired by the late Barbara Jordan (D-Texas). Click here to see what actions are available for you to take today!”

Join up and make a difference. Its easier to click buttons to fax now, then fight a civil war later.

Part 2 Leslie Stahl 60 Minutes Lou Dobbs 7000 Leprosy Dispute

May 8, 2007

Lou Dobbs and Christine Romans of CNN stood by their report of 7,000 cases in the last 3 years on Monday May 7, 2007. They reported they reviewed the Cosman article and were standing on that article.

The article by Madeleine Pelner Cosman is below:

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf

If you open this pdf in another window and go to search or find and enter leprosy, you can click through the different instances of it. It appears in the text and some footnotes, one of which is the NYT article linked to below.

The Cosman piece is not doing a good job distinguishing stock and flow. Here is the NYT piece

New York Times February 18, 2003, “While there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago, today more than 7,000 people have leprosy, or Hansen’s disease, as it is now called.”

The Cosman article turns the 900 cases recorded 40 years ago into “in 40 years only 900 people were afflicted”. (page 3 right column 2nd paragraph) So what was a stock of 900 in the NYT piece turned into a flow of 900 in the Cosman article.

Just before that sentence, Cosman says, “Suddenly, in the past 3 years, America has more than 7,000 cases of leprosy.” This mixes stock and flow language in the same sentence. When combined with the prior sentence it makes it sound like a flow of 900 cases for 40 years and then a flow of 7,000 over 3 years to have a stock at the end of the 3 years of 7,000 cases.

However, this is not correct. The Colorado Media Matters article is a well researched job that brings out the raw flow numbers per year and makes clear that 7,000 or 6,500 is the stock number. The problem with the Colorado Media Matters article is that its written as a hit job instead of to try to explain why its targets misunderstood.

Colorado Media Matters wants to say that the right wing people pushing the 7,000 number as a 3 year flow are evil, not to say that they misunderstood the Cosman text and failed to go back to original sources cited by Cosman. The NYT piece, although not a numbers piece in focus, has the data to help reorient, but not as much as what Colorado Media Matters itself assembled.

However, in the Colorado Media Matters piece you have to read it closely enough to find the numbers in the midst of the real hate. A hate piece is not a teaching piece. So, one can see how the Colorado Media Matters has failed to register in people’s minds. Its so eager to say that the ring wing pundits are evil that its data is poorly presented and they don’t articulate the stock and flow confusion. This is because they don’t want to understand how the error happened. They think they know that, people on the right are evil and lie.

However, its really a stock flow confusion that arises from careless wording in the Cosman article. The Cosman article was not a numbers article, nor a leprosy one. That was not its focus. It has 98 footnotes in a 5 page pdf. This was just one point among the many points in the article and is not even the lead. So Cosman was not focused on this issue either.

The same is true of the Leslie Stahl CBS 60 Minutes piece. They too were not interested in understanding the source of the error. It seems likely they found the CMM piece and just copied its hit job approach for Lou Dobbs and Christine Romans as the targets. This is also the emotion that Lou Dobbs and Christine Romans picked up on. 60 Minutes didn’t come to them as colleagues to explain this stock and flow confusion or try to show them the CMM piece and talk about it. They were practicing gotcha journalism, and concealing the numbers from the CMM article deliberately. But until you see the CMM article, you can’t reorient yourself from the Cosman paragraph that takes you in the wrong direction on stock and flow issues. 60 Minutes had the same bad intentions as CMM, to get its target.

In the process, both 60 Minutes and CMM failed to do their real obligation, teach their viewers or readers what the source of confusion was and what the correct way to understand the issue is. At the end of their pieces, readers and viewers don’t understand the numbers, and don’t understand the stock and flow issues. They only hear that Lou Dobbs, Christine Romans, The Peter Boyles Show, etc. are evil bigots. Its likely that CMM and 60 Minutes were both so eager to get the people they hated that they didn’t try to understand the math. The numbers became weapons to use, not data to understand and put together into a bigger picture.

This is the emotion that Lou Dobbs and Christine Romans picked up on. They were not being treated fairly or decently. If 60 Minutes had shown them the CMM piece, instead of plagiarizing it, and Christine Romans sat down with 60 Minutes with the Cosman piece, then together they could have figured out that the Cosman paragraph, buried in the article, had mixed up the stock and flow numbers from the New York Times article of 2003. Then with the CMM links, they could have figured out the stock and flow analysis.

That would have shown 900 cases in 1963 as a stock. (Even if that number is confused, its so close to zero relative to 7,000 it doesn’t matter.) So by 2003, 40 years, the stock of cases was about 7,000. The flow was 200 to 250 per year. The NYT piece makes it clear that the source of this is immigration:

according to a New York Times report from February 18, 2003, “While there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago, today more than 7,000 people have leprosy, or Hansen’s disease, as it is now called.”

But, in the past six years, Dr. Levis and his colleagues have proved that a handful of his patients — including a 73-year-old man from Queens who had never been out of the country and an elderly Jewish man from Westchester — have contracted leprosy here.

As a result, the disease is now officially endemic to the Northeastern United States for the first time ever. (Cases of leprosy transmission in the Southeast date as far back as the turn of the 19th century.) And leprosy experts think that even some foreign-born people with the infection may have acquired it in immigrant communities here.

Dr. Levis has tried to increase other physicians’ awareness of the disease through mailings, telephone calls and lectures.

So the conclusion is that 40 years of legal and illegal immigration brought leprosy to the North East where it had never been before. This was not the conclusion that CMM or 60 Minutes wanted. They wanted to say that their targets, Lou Dobbs, Christine Romans, The Peter Boyle Show, the Washington Times, WND, Lonewacko, etc. were evil and hate illegals because they are bigots. The conclusion for 60 Minutes and CMM is that these right wingers are bigots who lie. Because of that 60 Minutes and CMM both deceived their readers and perhaps themselves as to the true story, that 40 years of legal immigration from the 1965 Immigration Act caused these 7,000 cases of leprosy. The NYT piece goes into the detail, these cases come from immigrants and are spread by them.

As a result, the disease is now officially endemic to the Northeastern United States for the first time ever. (Cases of leprosy transmission in the Southeast date as far back as the turn of the 19th century.) And leprosy experts think that even some foreign-born people with the infection may have acquired it in immigrant communities here.

Not only did 60 Minutes deceive its viewers out of its own bias and hatred of Lou Dobbs, it also deceived them on the real source of disease to its viewers, the last 40 years of legal immigration. Those 40 years brought the disease. Cosman, Lou Dobbs, Christine Romans, The Peter Boyle Show, Lonewacko, World Net Daily, Frosty Wooldridge, the Washington Times, etc. all have the big story right, immigration is bringing disease here and killing Americans.

Just as America is responsible as a collective for its acts, and can be sued in court, so “big” immigration as a collective is responsible for its acts, and can be held to account in a moral court. This is not to bash immigrants, but immigration can be held responsible as a collective process. There is no other way to evaluate a collective process such as immigration, or war, except in terms of the consequences implied. Those who support or cause a collective process, like “Big Immigration” can be held responsible for it.

Motive for repeated acts is ascribed to those who did them or praised them. Immigration can be a weapon in the hands of the elites as much as a knife or gun in the hands of an individual. When the elites support it after every killing or death caused by it, we can infer they intend those deaths to continue, especially when they say its inevitable. We can infer that when they say we can’t stop it, and that if we try, that we are bigots. We can infer they intend us harm from a pattern of such statements linked to our deaths by killing or disease.

“Big” immigration killed Americans on 9-11 and in street crime. We are allowed to evaluate “Big Immigration” and decide if we want it. That’s not bigotry, that’s informed consent. 60 Minutes and CMM want “Big Immigration” to keep rolling. We can evaluate their motives towards us when we die over and over and their solution is that we don’t ask why or ask for it to stop.

If “Big Immigration” kills us, and they say be quiet, bigot, then we can infer that they are the real haters. We are allowed to infer from that behavior that it’s us they hate. They say the opposite, that they are here to inform us and help us. But if every time we are killed they call one of us bigots, we can infer that they have an intent to harm us. We can infer that this is the big lie that is being covered up and that it is being covered up by 60 Minutes and CMM in these pieces. We can infer that it is not even much of a cover up if they have to call us bigots to silence us.

We can infer that when they call us bigots, they take ownership of the crime against us. We can infer that if the “solution” is we keep on dying, that they take ownership of the future, past and current crime against us. When our wages go down and they say the solution is more immigration to keep our wages down, we can infer that they take ownership of our low wages now, in the past, and in the future. When we die of disease and they call Lou Dobbs a bigot and conceal that its 40 years of legal immigration as well as illegal immigration that caused the disease, then they take ownership of the disease, past, current and future.

Go back and reread the statements of 60 Minutes and CMM. Are their words the words of teachers explaining a math error and confusion? Did 60 Minutes and CMM teach the real answer? What is their goal, teach stock and flow distinctions, or to smite Lou Dobbs, Christine Romans, The Peter Boyle Show, and so forth. What solution for leprosy did they propose? Did they think the problem was Americans getting leprosy, or was the problem Lou Dobbs and Christine Romans?

–Following is more argumentative. In addition, the paragraph refuses to break w/o this.
Are their words ones of hatred with bits of math used as weapons, without even really understanding it properly? All they bothered to learn, was just enough to use it as a weapon. They didn’t learn all, because then the conclusion is that 40 years of legal immigration caused the leprosy in the US today. The real conclusion is that to save us, they need to admit legal immigration for the last 40 years harmed us by disease and that we have to stop legal immigration and send the illegals home.

The real hate comes out in names like “The Nightly Nativist”. The real hate comes out in the Nation’s attack on Lou Dobbs. Ken Auletta also attacks Dobbs, using some overlapping material from the Nation. I don’t recall him citing the Nation either on Charlie Rose when he discussed Dobbs. In the New Yorker article he mentions the Nation once, but doesn’t attribute any of the ideas or charges he makes, which may have some overlap. (But this is not verified at this point.) Auletta is more subtle than Daphne Eviatar in the Nation in her article, “The Nightly Nativism.”

The MSM hate Lou Dobbs, WND, The Peter Boyle Show, Joe Guzzardi at Vdare, etc. for telling the truth, immigration kills. It killed on 9-11. It kills when it takes people’s jobs. It kills when it keeps down wages. It kills when people lose their benefits. It kills from disease. It kills from street crime.

The MSM have lied us into being killed by immigration. Lying about what kill us is evidence of malice and intent. This is shown by the above analysis. The real goal of 60 Minutes and CMM was to cover up that legal immigration for the last 40 years, not just illegal immigration has caused leprosy to become a recognized disease in the North East for the first time ever.

When they lie about what causes our disease, then we are their target. Their job as media is to warn us on disease, not cover up that 40 years of legal immigration causes us to die. When they lie about that, we owe it to ourselves to infer that their intent towards us is malice. We need to stop being polite, while they call us bigots. They engage in acts and lie about them that cause us to die. We have to infer malice and intent. We owe it to ourselves.

They aren’t for us, they are against us. They hate us because they harm us. They hate us because they lie to us. The real hate they have is for us. They want us dead, and they keep succeeding. They made a Red Crescent Memorial for 9-11 that honored the hijackers.

On 9-11 itself, on their media programs, they said to us that we were bigots if we wanted to stop immigration. They brought them here to kill us. Why can we infer that? Because they say repeated attacks are a certainty and continue to bring in immigrants and call bigots those who say stop. That shows they intend that immigration will kill more, and say stopping it is bigotry.

This shows that the real haters are the MSM. The 19 hijackers killed with airplanes, but the elites used the 19 hijackers as a weapon, as shown by their Red Crescent Memorial and to their statements that it was bigots who wanted to stop immigration, and not the 19 hijackers. Those who celebrate with a Red Crescent Memorial have taken ownership of the hate of the killing itself. The 19 hijackers were never called bigots, nor was 9-11 called a hate crime. Why? Whose hate was it not being called out?

When the MSM lies that immigration kills, it shows intent and malice. When they lie about what kills us, as here, the last 40 years of legal immigration, it shows they want it to continue. When they want us to continue to die, its evidence they hate us. Every time immigration kills us, they call us bigots, never the direct agent. This shows that these are their instruments, and that when we are killed through immigration, its an instrumentality of their intent. Their lies before and after are evidence of their intent to harm us by the act on the screen.

When they call the victims bigots, it shows they had malice towards them and us. When the victims are silenced, as they have tried to silence the 9-11 families, by threatening to call them bigots, it shows they intended the harm. When they prevent the solution, stopping immigration, it shows they intended the harm of the immigration. When they say its bigotry to identify the cause, it shows they are the ultimate cause. They take ownership of the act and are the cause.

When we catch them doing what they did in this case of disease, cover up that its 40 years of legal immigration that caused it, then we fail morally if we just laugh at them without drawing the conclusion. Like the 9-11 families, we have a moral obligation to ourselves, our children, and our community.

When we let 60 Minutes and CMM get away with covering up what is causing us to die, when we should infer malice on their part, then its our failure. We are letting them kill our brothers, our sisters, our parents, our children, and our grandchildren. We have an obligation to hold the MSM accountable for their lies. We have an obligation to hold them accountable for calling us and their victims, bigots. This is what the 9-11 families learned.

Because we let them off is why the MSM keep doing it. When we die, they call us bigots. Every time some of us are shown dead on the screen, the MSM call us bigots. They threatened the 9-11 families that way, and they threaten us that way. Its not enough to laugh it off, we have to hold them to account specifically for malice and intent to kill us by disease and by future terrorism and by losing our jobs and the rest by immigration.

Every time, that we are killed by big immigration, they threaten to call us bigots. What is the solution when we are killed by terrorism? By disease? By low wages? The solution is that we die just the same and don’t ask for answers to the question, why is this happening to us? Who is responsible for the series of harmful events, not just each one in isolation?

Who is championing the process that involves our repeated death? They say to ask such questions is bigotry towards immigrants. But isn’t it they who are in control of “Big Immigration” as a process? Isn’t it their motives that are revealed by serial killings against us by different people?

Who asked for this death? When did we give consent to it? Why can’t we stop it if we consented to it? When did we give consent to die and give up any right to stop what is causing it? When did we consent that “big” immigration was the all important goal and not us? When did they say that? Is that what Kennedy said in 1965? That we would die from big immigration? Or did he lie and say the opposite? Why shouldn’t they be held to have malice when they lie about what kills us?

Its no accident that CMM went after the Peter Boyle Show on the issue of illegal immigration causing disease. Its no accident that 60 Minutes copied the CMM attack piece and tried it on Lou Dobbs. They didn’t pick some error about something else, its this. And its no accident that the truth is that its legal immigration that is killing us, not just illegal immigration and that they covered that up.

Every time the MSM call us bigots or call us bigots through calling Lou Dobbs a bigot or the Peter Boyle Show a bigot, they are showing their intent. When they call us bigots, its because they hate us. When one of us dies, another of us is called a bigot. That happens every time. That shows they hate us. Because this happens over and over, the killing and the calling us bigots, it shows they intend the killing. Calling us bigots, or Lou Dobbs a bigot, when we die from disease, shows they hate us and intend us to die. That’s evidence. We need to infer that is what their intent is and what their motive is. Trials convict for intent based on circumstantial evidence.

The same killings over and over, and the same calling us bigots if we try to stop the killings by stopping immigration is more proof of intent to kill us than almost any trial. The MSM say it to our face every time. The killings go on. The calling us bigots goes on. That’s more evidence than in the Scott Peterson case or other cases of intent for double homicide or multiple homicide.

You be the jury like its the Scott Peterson case. But now, instead of one incident, they come over and over, and the calling us out as bigots comes over and over. You be the jury. Aren’t they more guilty than Scott Peterson? Of more killings? Of more lies? Of more hate speech in calling us bigots?

For you as the jury, your charge is as follows. By hiding that legal immigration causes disease, do 60 Minutes and CMM take ownership in the people harmed by that disease? Is hiding that legal immigration causes disease evidence of malice?

Did both CMM and 60 Minutes read the New York Times article cited by CMM that indicated that it was immigration, legal as well as illegal that was responsible for the rise of disease in the US? Did both ignore the rest of the Cosman article with its over 90 footnotes?

Is calling Lou Dobbs and by extension Christine Romans, bigots over the narrow issue of illegal v. legal immigration and 3 years immigration v. the immigration since the 1965 Immigration, and using that as a smoke screen to take attention away that its immigration that causes the rise in leprosy show intention to deceive?

Is that a violation of their representation to us to protect us by news, not harm us by falsehood?

Is calling out Lou Dobbs and Christine Roman for 3 v. 30 and illegal v. legal but hiding that its immigration since the 1965 Immigration Act that is responsible for leprosy in the Northeast for the first time ever show intent to deceive us and show malice?

Do CBS and CMM take ownership of the disease by their actions?

Does this show they hate us? Do the MSM hate us without knowing us as individuals? They don’t know our names. Do they hate us anyhow? Is that bigotry? Are CBS and CMM bigots?

Leslie Stahl 60 Minutes Lou Dobbs 7000 Leprosy Cases Dispute

May 7, 2007

Leslie Stahl of 60 Minutes interviewed Lou Dobbs in a segment broadcast on Sunday May 6, 2007. She says Christine Romans of Lou Dobbs reported 7,000 cases of leprosy in the last 3 years v. 7,000 cases in the last 30 years.

Note that there is a stock and flow issue here. Does 7,000 mean a flow, i.e. new cases, or does it mean 7,000 people have it at a point in time, a stock? Different people might read the same document or hear of it, and interpret 7,000 cases to mean 7,000 new cases as a flow or there exist 7,000 cases. Even the authors of a document might be careless in explaining this issue, because “its obvious” to them what they meant. Nurses might tell us that’s how doctors always write.

We first review a media watch dog group that has several references on this issue. That group Colorado Media Matters states

according to a New York Times report from February 18, 2003, “While there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago, today more than 7,000 people have leprosy, or Hansen’s disease, as it is now called.”

But, in the past six years, Dr. Levis and his colleagues have proved that a handful of his patients — including a 73-year-old man from Queens who had never been out of the country and an elderly Jewish man from Westchester — have contracted leprosy here.

As a result, the disease is now officially endemic to the Northeastern United States for the first time ever. (Cases of leprosy transmission in the Southeast date as far back as the turn of the 19th century.) And leprosy experts think that even some foreign-born people with the infection may have acquired it in immigrant communities here.

Dr. Levis has tried to increase other physicians’ awareness of the disease through mailings, telephone calls and lectures.

As the entire NYT piece shows, its immigration that has caused this disease to spread to Americans in the North East for the first time ever. In fact, Dr. Levis in New York had to teach other doctors in the the US to look out for this disease, because these other doctors didn’t know it existed in America. The reason is that the disease is caused in the US by legal and illegal immigration since the 1965 Immigration Act. The only error that Lou Dobbs and others may have made is to attribute this to recent illegal immigration instead of to the entire path of legal and illegal immigration since Ted Kennedy told us the 1965 Immigration Act wouldn’t change America and wouldn’t harm Americans at all. (Something he tells all his dates.)

Thus the stock 40 years prior to 2003, i.e. in 1963 was 900. The stock in 2003 was 7,000. Colorado Media Matters references reports consistent with this and that state the flow of new cases is about 200 to 250 per year, although it peaked in the 1980’s. If we take 1963 to 2003, at 200 per year, we get 8,000 new cases. Some people die in 40 years, so 200 to 250 new cases per year starting from 900 could leave 7,000 outstanding.

So what happened to cause this? Legal immigration. The 1965 Immigration Act created massive legal immigration. Illegal immigration also increased in that period. Unlike Eisenhower, who removed the illegals with no problem, the US has amnestied them since and gotten more. In 1963 after 40 years of immigration restriction, the stock of cases was 900. Note this wouldn’t be the flow in 1963, since new cases per year don’t get that high even today.

So it was legal immigration that caused the rise of leprosy. With no immigration, the stock of cases was only 900. It was legal immigration that changed this, along with illegal immigration.

What 60 Minutes has helped us learn from this is that we must halt all legal immigration, not just send the illegals home to stop disease coming here. This is a valuable contribution by 60 Minutes, Colorado Media Matters, Lou Dobbs and others who have written on this such as Lonewacko, WND, etc.

More from Colorado Media Matters

Further, HHS’s Hansen’s disease “Frequently Asked Questions” webpage states that there are a total of “approximately 6,500″ registered cases in the United States and that 200-250 new cases [are] reported to the registry annually” [emphasis added]:

In the United States there are approximately 6,500 cases on the registry which includes all cases reported since the registry began and still living. The number of cases with active disease and requiring drug treatment is approximately 600. There are 200-250 new cases reported to the registry annually with about 175 of these being new cases diagnosed for the first time.

Similarly, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) stated in a June 16, 2006, report, “Summary of Notifiable Diseases — United States, 2004,” that “[t]he number of reported cases of Hansen disease (HD) in the United States peaked at 361 in 1985 and has declined since 1988.”

This data all confirms that 40 years of legal immigration, and illegal, produced a rise in the stock of cases from 900 in 1963 to 7,000 in 2003. This represents 200 up to 361 new cases per year, and some people died, some illegals perhaps left, and we are left with 7,000 in 2003. Note this is reported cases in these databases. Actual numbers are higher.

The 60 Minutes website Transcript has the following:

“Lou Dobbs, “Advocacy” Journalist?
Lesley Stahl Interviews The Outspoken CNN Anchor On “60 Minutes”"

One of the issues he tackles relentlessly is illegal immigration. And on that, his critics say, his advocacy can get in the way of the facts.

Following a report on illegal immigrants carrying diseases into the U.S., one of the correspondents on his show, Christine Romans, told Dobbs that there have been 7,000 cases of leprosy in the U.S. in the past three years.

60 Minutes checked that and found a report issued by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, saying that 7,000 is the number of leprosy cases over the last 30 years, not the past three. The report also says that nobody knows how many of those cases involve illegal immigrants.

“We went to try and check that number, 7,000. We can’t…,” Stahl says.

“Well, I can tell you this. If we reported it, it’s a fact,” Dobbs replies.

“You can’t tell me that. You did report it,” Stahl says.

“I just did,” Dobbs says.

“How can you guarantee that to me?” Stahl asks.

Says Dobbs, “Because I’m the managing editor. And that’s the way we do business. We don’t make up numbers, Lesley.”

“That’s a strange attitude for a reporter to have, ‘I don’t need anymore facts. I know what the truth is,’” says Mark Potok, who monitors hate groups for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Like Colorado Media Matters and others, 60 Minutes misses the point that their own research shows its legal immigration from the 1965 Immigration Act along with illegal immigration that has caused the rise in the stock of leprosy cases from going from 900 in 1963 to 7,000 in 2003.

Presumably, 60 Minutes found the Colorado Media Matters webpage and used that in researching their piece? If so, they might note that on their webpage. CMM goes after several people in the same way as 60 Minutes did Lou Dobbs. Did 60 Minutes copy this CMM tactic, but without disclosing CMM as their source or idea for that part of the segment?

CMM goes after Frosty Wooldridge, and World Net Daily, and talk radio 630 KHOW-AM’s The Peter Boyles Show. In each case, CMM harps on the issue of illegal immigration. But as the NYT piece shows, its legal and illegal immigration since the 1965 Immigration Act that are to blame. Ted Kennedy lied about its harmful impact then just as he lies about the disease from new legal immigrants today, as well as illegals. We must halt legal immigration to zero to stop disease coming in from immigration. That is a tautology, which means its true. (Some liberals may not be able to handle the difference between a true tautology about the need to stop legal immigration and bigotry. Sweden and Finland seem to have that problem in 2 recent cases.)

It is, perhaps, unfair to blame any one person for this confusion in stock and flow, since none of those involved explicitly went into this issue quite in these terms, although CMM gets close in providing the information. The term cases itself is not telling you if its new cases per year or the stock of cases, so its easy for people not to know what is meant. In addition, the distinction of stock and flow may be emphasized more in the economics literature than in the disease demography literature. Macroeconomics in particular, emphasizes the distinction between a flow variable like GDP or income and a stock variable like wealth.

CMM still failed to reach the complete and correct answer, that legal immigration from the 1965 Immigration Act is to blame along with illegal immigration. In 1963 after 40 years of immigration restriction we had 900 cases. In 2003 after 40 years of Kennedy’s 1965 legal Immigration Act we had over 7,000 cases. As the NYT piece showed, this came from legal immigration and illegal immigration. As the NYT piece stated, “the disease is now officially endemic to the Northeastern United States for the first time ever”. Thus the conclusion is that we must stop all legal immigration and send all illegals home to stop the inflow of disease.

==Appendix Some webpages consulted in researching this piece. Some duplicates.

Of particular interest is the following which has some perspective on the whole segment.

“60 Minutes versus Lou Dobbs…and the Winner Is…”

[Joe Guzzardi] @ 10:48 pm [Email author] [Email This Article] [Print This Article]

http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2007/05/06/60-minutes-versus-lou-dobbsand-the-winner-is/

search leprosy 7000

Picks up a copy of a WND article

http://journals.aol.com/beezsignal/the-floor/entries/2007/01/15/is-leprosy-creeping-into-the-us/1589

http://minnsirproject.blogspot.com/2007/03/attack-on-our-health.html

These search pick up the name John Levis, lets try this search on google:

leprosy 7000 “John Levis”

Results 127 of 27 for leprosy 7000 “John Levis”.

Media Matters tries to debunk the 7000 figure in the last 3 years:

http://colorado.mediamatters.org/items/200609250001

Copy of New York Times piece from 2003

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9406E0D81E3AF93BA25751C0A9659C8B63&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=1

http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Disease/030226.leprosy.in.US.html

http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/006629.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43275

“Lou Dobbs, “Advocacy” Journalist?
Lesley Stahl Interviews The Outspoken CNN Anchor On “60 Minutes”"

leprosy 7000

Results 1100 of about 91,300 for leprosy 7000.

leprosy 7000 “3 years”

Results 1100 of about 16,100 for leprosy 7000 “3 years.

http://eforum.reviewjournal.com/lv/showthread.php?t=1740

“As per Fox news this morning there are 7000 new cases of lepersy in the US , mainly among immigrants ,” from usa today Banned member.

http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/002902.html

which references Madeleine Pelner Cosman:

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf

Although last, this final reference is worth reading.

Islamophobia Alert: 60 Minutes Jihad means violence

May 7, 2007

60 minutes used Jihad to mean violent struggle and didn’t mention internal struggle once in their broadcast.

“Switching Sides: Inside The Enemy Camp
Bob Simon Talks To A Former Terrorist Commander” Simon interviewed Nasir Abas.

He was a top commander in Jemaah Islamiyah, al Qaeda’s franchise operation in Southeast Asia.

For 20 years, he worked to achieve an Islamic state throughout Southeast Asia. He embraced the idea of a holy war and spoke the language of jihad.

“I hate the infidels,” Abas admits he once believed. (For some reason this is never called infidelphobia.)

“Infidel is a non-Muslim people,” Abas replies.

“And you hated non-Muslim people,” Simon remarks. “At that time you would have hated me.”

“Of course. But now not,” Abas says.

(This is what Infidelphobia sounds like. Interestingly, 60 Minutes piece is what the Swedish and Finnish government think is Islamophobia. All phobia is evil by Westerners.)

Infidelphobia and Islamophobia, compare and contrast:  Both are commanded in the Quran.  Muslims are commanded to fear and subjugate infidels.  Infidels are commanded to fear and submit to Islam and Muslims.  Thus the only difference, is that infidels are to submit and Muslims are to subjugate as a consequence of their fears.  This is the view of the Quran.  Muslims are commanded to make it so.  The Swedish, Finnish, etc. governments follow the Quran in this regard.

There are many verses to Muslims to fear infidels.  There are many verses commanding infidels to submit.  Submission by its nature, ipso res, comes from fear.  For the Quran to command that infidels submit, means a command that they fear.  Submission comes from great fear, not little fear.  So the Quran commands great fear in infidels.

In fact, the fear of submission is the fear that slaves feel, or women when they stop resisting a rape.  This is the fear of paralysis.  That is a fear controlled in the lower brain.  This is the fear Islam commands.  Is that irrational fear?  Its fight or flight or submit fear.

That fear doesn’t go through the higher reasoning centers at all.  Its in the lower brain stem that has far more control of our motor responses than the higher brain.   The Quran commands the most extreme fear the brain is capable of, and in the lower brain centers that bypass the higher brain centers.

Finnish police go after blogger Mikko Ellilä from Dhimmi Watch: “Tundra Tabloids and Gates of Vienna have important updates on the case of Finnish blogger Mikko Ellilä”. Dhimmi Watch: “Finnish Police Will Question Blogger Under ‘Incitement Against Groups’ Law” See Lynn Davidson at Newsbusters.

Republican GOP Presidential Debates Go Tom Tancredo

May 3, 2007

Islamic radicalism question. “How do we win the war on terrorism, when jihadis are so easily replaced, when killed?” (paraphrase). Brownback. Engage moderate Muslim regimes, in Pakistan and Egypt. Confront Iran.

Q: Zogby poll shows 10 to 12 percent support us in moderate countries like Turkey and Morocco, and rest hate us. A: We need to engage. Not much of an answer, blather.

Q to Huckabee. Would you have fired Donald Rumsfeld before election last November? A Yes.

Q: General shakeup in cabinet? A: Jim Gilmore, right hand in pants pocket. Engage in Middle East. Palestinians and Israels. Sunnis and Shiites.

Q: On Iran nukes. A: McCain, will wait until they have a nuke to respond. (That’s too late.)

Q: Help Israel strike Iran? A: Tancredo. Would depend on our analysis, but would support.

Q: Amend Constitution so foreign born can run? A: Huckabee Yes, McCain maybe, Guilani sort of Yes. Rest No.

Q: to Rudi, what did you learn about African American community or by interacting with them? A: Tried to move people out of welfare, followed Tommy Thompson program. Moved people off, crime down.

Q: Dislike most about America to Romeny A: No real answer.

Q: Global warming to Huckabee: A: Leave planet in better shape. No real answer on whether believes in global warming.

Q: Shortage of organs donated for transplant: A: Not president’s job. No cloning.

Q: Compassionate Conservative like Bush to Hunter: A Yes. Iran has crossed the line. US has license to take necessary actions to stop instruments being moved across line inside Iraq. Don’t wait for enrichment by Iran, move quickly. (Basically he would attack Iran. Way to go Hunter.)

Q: A: Ron Paul. To lower taxes, change policy.

Values segment.

Q: Roe v Wade overturn: A Rudi ok to overturn, but ok not to overturn. Court has to make that decision. States make own decision. Others want it. Tancredo yes. Gilmore is pro choice?

Q: To Romney. Personally pro life, but would protect the law as it was. Cloning is too far. Changed mind, is now pro life.

(The Republicans overall are the A team compared to the Democrats. They come across as presidential. They are all solid executives and solid on policy. Also much stronger. Dems lacked in strong leadership presences in their debate. )

Q: McCain restore unity? A I want to be president to defeat enemies and help allies. Take on radial Islamic extremism, which threatens our values and very life. Most experienced candidate. Don’t want to be proud of nation which thinks best years are behind us.

Q: Duncan Hunter. China dangerous. Iran pursuing nuclear weapons.

Q Unite? Huckabee: Morning in America. Vision for America.

Q Paul A: Military aggressiveness weakens national defense. Getting ready to go to war with 3rd world countries with minor forces.

Huckabee Q: Private employer finds homosexuality, can fire them: A: Leave it up to business. Answer is yes.

Romney: Separation of church and state.

Huckabee. My faith affects my decision process. I am troubled by someone who tells me their faith doesn’t affect their decisions.

Gilmore: Spending too much money in government. What is important to this country is not Karl Rove.

Q: Tom Tancredo: A Karl Rove would not be in the White House if I was. Differ on immigration.

Q: Guiliani. A. Neither party has monopoly on virtue and vice. Ran a city that was 5 to 1 Democratic. Most conservative govt last 50 years, reduced crime.

Q: Thompson: Vetoed 1900 things? Welfare reform. Reduced welfare in Wisconsin by 93 percent. Republicans lost way. Washington changed us instead of us changing Washington.

Q: Brownback. Corruption in Republican party. A: Also Democrats with money in deep freezes.
Q: Tancredo. Ethics violations. A: Failures by individuals. Not just Democrats. Don’t have to be a centrist. Had principles. Believe in your heart in things you say is what matters.

Q: McCain. A: Special interest have kept spectrum. Lost election 2006, lost way. Spending got out of trouble.

Q: Budget. What programs cut. A: Line item veto is best tool. Defense acquisitions.

Q: Huckabee. What letter grade on Iraq war handling. A: No grade until it was over.

Q: Romney. Judges. A: Will appoint pro life judges not just strict constructionists.

Q: Rudi. pro choice? A: Hate abortion. Encouraged adoptions, went up 65 percent, abortion down 16 percent. Support choice.

Q: Thompson. Racism a problem. A: A problem can do things about it.

Q: Tancredo. A: Who else should be nominee? Good men all here. Issues not addressed tonight, immigration reform. No more platitudes. No more not for amnesty but for letting them stay. Who is where on this incredible issue.

Q: Anti illegal immigration position? A McCain is for comprehensive solution for illegal immigration. Temporary worker program. 12 million illegals.

Q: Hunter: Global warming and need to be energy independent. Bring together to remove energy dependence on Middle East and help climate. Take taxes to zero on alternative energy sources. Support US industry not foreign.

Q: Ron Paul. Decisions. A: In medicine have to make decisions. Not go to war in Iraq.

Q: To Gilmore. Mothers nonviolent first time offenders. A: Insist on obedience to the law. Let courts and juries make decisions. When elected prosecutor, had to address them. Have to have the law apply. Was governor during 9-11 attack. Chairman on terrorism commission.

Q: Embryonic stem cell research. A: Romney against. Brownback against. Gilmore no.

Huckabee no. Hunter no. Thompson mixed. Adult. McCain: Fund this. Ron Paul. Shouldn’t be in Washington. Rudi: Support it with limitations. Tancredo: No taxpayer money.

Romney: Health program. Also tax relief middle class on investment income. Eliminate tax on dividends, interest and capital gains for middle class.
Brownback: Flat tax.

Gilmore: Cut alternative minimum.

Huckabee: Fair tax. Flatter, fairer, family, finite.

Hunter: US manufacturing move off shore. Dumb trade deal, our exports taxed twice. Eliminate all taxes on companies hiring American workers and making products in US.

Thompson. Vetoed 1900 items. Cut alternative minimum tax. Flat tax. Pay whichever is least.

McCain: Alt minimum has to be repealed. 3000 tax credit to purchase health insurance. Simpler, flatter, fairer tax.

Dr. Paul: Cut taxes. Also inflation tax.

Rudi: Adjust AMT. Get rid of death tax.

Tancredo: Fair tax. Repeal 16th Amendment. Consumption and income tax we will end up with. Deal with structural problem in mandatory spending.

McCain: Lieberman may appoint to Cabinet. John Chambers hire from industry. (But Chambers already works for the Chinese government?)

Hunter: Secure the border. 2000 miles porous. Hundreds of thousands come across border. Some come across from Iran, Communist China, Korea.

McCain: Yes believes in evolution. A: See hand of God at Grand Canyon. (Actually the number 1 shows God’s presence more than the Grand Canyon does.)

Rudi: Sunni v. Shiite. Sunni believe Caliphate selected, Shiites believe by descent. Slaughter of Shiites in early history. (Very good answer.)

Gilmore: Consistent conservative.

Ron Paul: Trust internet more than MSM. Never interfere with internet. Never voted to regulate internet. Freedom of expression. Pick and choose in MSM. Some friendly, and some not so.

Rudi: Weakness as candidate. Optimist.

Huckabee: CEO’s get bonuses and workers lose pensions in sellouts to overseas is wrong.

Tom Tancredo: Work to protect women’s rights. Abortion. Not right to kill another person.

Thompson. Over 3000 killed, several thousand injured.

Ron Paul: No national id card. Tancredo: no national id. But a verifiable social security card. Thompson no national id.

Pardon Libby: Judicial process should complete. Should not have prosecuted after knew someone else leaked. Brownback: No law violated. Gilmore. Pardon has to make case. Tancredo: Pardon Ramos and Compean first then Libby. Ron Paul: No pardon.

Romney and Rudi: national id only for immigrants, not citizens. (Silly distinction, meaningless.) Gilmore: No national id card.

Clinton back in White House: Romney, awful to have Clinton back in WH. Paul voted to impeach Clinton.

Rudi: Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. Not mentioned by Democrats.

(Almost every answer possible, the moderator would respond to Tom Tancredo’s answer with a sneer and gibe and put down. Tancredo said, Clinton is measuring drapes, and Chris Matthews put Tancredo down, you really think he is doing that? And this was typical of Matthews treatment of Tancredo. This was not done to other candidates like this. Another one was when Matthews asked Tancredo about Rove, and Tancredo said this is the closest Tancredo had ever been to Air Force One. Matthews then derisively said that isn’t air force one to put him down.)

Mistakes by Bush: Huckabee, taking power from states. Hunter: losing industrial base. China is cheating. Enforce trade laws, Bush doesn’t. Brownback: 3 state solution in Iraq. Push political solution. Tancredo: No child left behind, medical prescription were overreaching. Tancredo on Iraq Matthews cut him off and went to Thompson: Medical diplomacy. Dr. Paul: change foreign policy. Robert Taft foreign policy. Privacy of citizens. Warrantless searches. Not abuse habeas corpus.

Matthews thanked Mrs. Reagen but not any of the candidates, until after this was written.

MSNBC: The 10 most prominent candidates were debating ET at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, Calif., north of Los Angeles. The debate, co-sponsored by MSNBC and the political Web site politico.com, is airing on MSNBC-TV and C-SPAN radio and streaming live on MSNBC.com.Sen. Mel Martinez of Florida, chairman of the Republican National Committee…

For former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, the gathering is a chance to build momentum on recent polls that show him leading the field. A poll released Thursday by Quinnipiac University showed Giuliani leading his closest declared rival, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, by 27 percent to 19 percent. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney trailed in third, with 8 percent.

The other candidates on the stage Thursday night are Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Rep. Duncan Hunter of California, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, Rep. Tom Tancredo of Colorado and Tommy Thompson, a former governor of Wisconsin and Bush’s first secretary of health and human services.