Archive for the 'Lincoln The Neocon' Category

Ron Paul Bill Kristol Civil War Slavery Iraq

December 28, 2007

An imaginary debate between Ron Paul and William Kristol

Ron Paul: All the other countries ended slavery without a civil war. See the Wiki Abolition of Slavery Timeline.

Kristol: Wiki is for the small minds opposed to Lincoln.

Ron Paul: Lincoln gave away a tenth of America’s land to railroad companies. Lincoln gave them that land in the 1862 Pacific Railway Act. Lincoln had been a lawyer for the railroads and they made him president. He was paying them off.

Kristol: That is more crackpot history.

Ron Paul: No if you look at Wiki Pacific Railway Acts you will see it. Let me read it for you:

From 1850-1871, the railroads received more than 175 million acres (708,000 km²) of public land – an area more than one tenth of the whole United States and larger than Texas.

Kristol: Its in kilometers.

Ron Paul: I thought neocons were supposed to be sophisticated.

Kristol: We hate Europe, remember. Kilometers were invented in Europe by the French in the French Revolution.

Ron Paul: Miles were invented in Europe too you know.

Kristol: Your ideas are crackpot. Lincoln was doing the right thing to build America.

Ron Paul: The same give away was proposed in 1856 but failed. That is why the railroads had to put their lawyer in. Lincoln sneaked it in during the Civil War while the country wasn’t watching. Let’s read more from the Wiki article I cited above:

Based largely on a proposed Pacific railroad bill originally reported six years earlier on August 16, 1856, to the 34th Congress

See it failed in peacetime. The country rejected the give away to the railroad interests. They were big money interests in New York and Chicago who had hired Lincoln before he became president. Lincoln fought an unneeded Civil War and used it as cover for a giveaway to his backers who made him president.

Kristol: We had to fight the civil war.

Ron Paul: You think the other countries should have fought civil wars and you wish they had so you could take them over.

Kristol: No I don’t. Lets move onto Iraq.

Ron Paul: We went into that country and caused a civil war.

Kristol: That is just pure anti-Americanism. We liberated Iraq and then al Qaeda came in and caused the civil war.

Ron Paul: You are saying, if you break it, al Qaeda owns it.

Kristol: We didn’t break it, al Qaeda broke it.

Ron Paul: And now they own it. Because you don’t have enough troops, and didn’t in the beginning because you ignored what you were told.

Kristol: We used the best military advice. This is becoming a pointless rehash of criticisms of the Iraq Liberation instead of focusing on your crackpot ideas about Lincoln, freeing the slaves and the Civil War.

Ron Paul: It seems to me that your views could be summed up as follows. Iraq never fought a civil war to end slavery. I suppose they had slavery at some time, after all it was the center of an Islamic empire. So they were one short in your count. So you invaded Iraq and gave them a civil war to make up for their not having one whenever they ended slavery.

Kristol: This is just white nationalist bigotry. Saying Iraq had to have had slavery at some time because it was the center of an Islamic Empire is just white supremacy. You take money from the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, and white supremacist front organizations.

Ron Paul: None of that is true.

Kristol : It was in the New York Times.

Ron Paul: They retracted it.

Kristol: Show me:

Ron Paul: Here it is:

http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/26/editors-note-the-ron-paul-vid-lash/

A post in The Medium that appeared on Monday about the Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul and his purported adoption by white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups contained several errors. Stormfront, which describes itself as a “white nationalist” Internet community, did not give money to Ron Paul’s presidential campaign; according to Jesse Benton, a spokesman for Paul’s campaign, it was Don Black, the founder of Stormfront, who donated $500 to Paul. The original post also repeated a string of assertions by Bill White, the commander of the American National Socialist Workers Party, including the allegation that Paul meets regularly “with members of the Stormfront set, American Renaissance, the Institute for Historic Review and others” at a restaurant in Arlington, Va. Paul never attended these dinners, according to Benton, who also says that Paul has never knowingly met Bill White.

Kristol: All that it says is that you took money from the white nationalist directly not from his organization. But it amounts to the same thing.

Ron Paul: It just comes down to smear for you doesn’t it? What about what you did to the people of Iraq? What about the people who were tortured? Have you no shame?

Kristol: I don’t have to listen to a white supremacist race baiter. This discussion is over.

==Ref from Ron Paul view

Justin Raimondo gives his take here, “Ron v. the Huckster”:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11570

And on the collapse of the front runners:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12124

There is a long and fractious debate at the comment thread at Vanishing American on Ron Paul and the Civil War.

http://vanishingamerican.blogspot.com/2007/12/fallout-from-ron-paul-tim-russert.html

=”Crackpot History”

Lincoln’s role as railroad lawyer and lobbyist.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo53.html

By 1860 the Illinois Central Railroad was one of the largest corporations in the world. In a company history, J. G. Drennan noted that “Mr. Lincoln was continuously one of the attorneys for the Illinois Central Railroad Company from its organization [in 1849] until he was elected President” (Starr, p. 58). He was called on by the company’s general counsel to litigate dozens of cases. He was such a railroad industry “insider” that he often rode in private cars and carried a free railroad pass, courtesy of the Illinois Central.

..

He often traveled “with a party of officials of the Illinois Central company. He rode in a private car, on his own pass furnished him in his capacity as attorney for the company.” This “greatly impressed some of the young Republican leaders . . .” This was the real Lincoln, and it is diametrically opposed to the image of the modest, backwoods “rail splitter” that the court historians have created.

Lincoln’s image was created by the Karl Rove types of his day. They had a standard way of presenting presidents as rising from humble origins, born in a log cabin, etc. Lincoln profited from insider trading, in effect, in real estate and then enriched himself as the Thomas J. DiLorenzo article details.

Why invest in real estate in Council Bluffs, Iowa, of all places? Why not Chicago or even Springfield, the state capital? Because Lincoln the political insider knew that there was a very high likelihood that 1) the federal government would eventually subsidize a transcontinental railroad; and 2) the starting point for that railroad could well be in the vicinity of Council Bluffs. If so, the value of his real estate holdings would be wildly inflated and he would make a killing.

When he became president legislation was immediately proposed, in a special legislative session called by Lincoln in July of 1861, to create the taxpayer-subsidized Union Pacific Railroad. “There was no firmer friend of the Union Pacific bill than the President himself,” writes Starr. (In contrast, most mainstream “Lincoln scholars” make the preposterous assertion that he had nothing to do with such legislation). The bill was passed in 1862 and it gave the president the power to appoint all the directors and commissioners and, more importantly, “to fix the point of commencement” of the Union Pacific Railroad. And guess where Lincoln chose to fix the point of commencement of the railroad. He “fixed the eastern terminus of the Union Pacific Railroad . . . at Council Bluffs, Iowa” (p. 202). His financial gains must have dwarfed Corning’s $10,000 salary offer. During the Grant administrations dozens of prominent people would go to federal prison for such criminal self-dealing but Lincoln, the ringleader of the whole enterprise, has up to now escaped scrutiny.

Lincoln was a crook. Lincoln was a grafter. Lincoln abused power. Lincoln lied. Lincoln suspended civil rights. Lincoln abused the prison power. Lincoln abused political opponents using the power of government. Lincoln expanded the power of government and reduced the freedom of people everywhere, North and South.

Lincoln didn’t have enough troops at the start of his war, and wildly underestimated the cost in lives and men. Lincoln killed 600,000 people from stupidity, incompetence and indifference. Sounds like a neocon. They are the party of Lincoln.

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

==Ron Paul on Neocons, a little under 3 minutes from House floor:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bJlyr8dheEM

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