The following comment was posted at Vanishing American but makes an important point about why proposition nation building is failing. Proposition Nation Building is what comes from neocons who believe that nations are propositional and not people based, i.e. the same ethnic group, race, religion, beliefs, shared history, etc.
Neocons believe in proposition nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan, and eliminating America, Canada, Australia, Europe, etc. as real people nations. They are people nation unbuilding while attempting to and failing at proposition nation building. This is because nation means a people with common ethnicity, culture, identity etc. Culture isn’t something you buy, it comes from history and is not easily changed. It is linked to gene frequencies to some extent as well.
Neocons are failing at proposition nation building in Afghanistan and Iraq. They are at the same time people nation unbuilding America and the West. The latter is their greater crime.
==Comment from VA
I think you are making an important written record of well argued pieces that are heavily sourced to present traditionalism which was once conservatism. Philosophies have to be adapted to our times.
Many of the solutions from the right actually make no sense. Reducing immigration a little is not a solution. Its a failure to understand.
Our basic problem there and here is that we don’t distinguish an us. To really have an us, you have to acknowledge that the people are what make up us. A proposition us, is bad grammar and leads to failing policies.
Us’s are people. Our leaders won’t say there is an us that is non-propositional because they would have to say the W-word, white. You are willing to say the W-word and that its the W-word that makes us an us.
Until we recognize that we are a distinct non-propositional people, we don’t have a logical basis to stop their coming here or to go there, rapidly remove their ability to harm us and leave without further obligation.
The proposition nation crowd can’t distinguish us and them. So they feel the same obligation to nation build them there as to bring them here. The proposition nationalists can’t give a reason why proposition nation building won’t work there.
Proposition nation building is false if proposition nations are false. We are wasting our time there building proposition nations, when that is a fallacy, there and here. We are nation unbuilding here because we don’t recognize that this is not a proposition nation and bring them here simply unbuilds the real people nation we still have here.
You should also consider turning off comments here and linking to a comment thread at the forum on each article here. Just moving the comments to a there will make them seem different than here.
Proposition nation build there and people nation unbuild here.
The axiom of Neoconism
Nations are propositions not people.
This is wrong as the meaning of the word. The word nation comes from the Latin word for birth.
- The action of being born; birth; or
- The goddess personifying birth; or
- A breed, stock, kind, species, race; or
- A tribe, or (rhetorically, any) set of people (contemptuous); or
- A nation or people.
The combining form nātiōn‑ is built on the past participle form nāt‑us “having been born” of the verb nāscī “to be born”. Thus it is also related closely to the English word “native”, and more remotely to the English word “kin”. It shares a common derivation from the Proto-Indo-European root *gen- “bear, generate, etc.”
As an example of how the word natio was employed in classical Latin, consider the following quote from Cicero‘s Philippics Against Mark Antony in 44 BC. Cicero contrasts the external, inferior nationes (“races of people”) with the Roman civitas (“community”).:
“Omnes nationes servitutem ferre possunt: nostra civitas non potest.”
(“All races are able to bear enslavement, but our community cannot.”)
The Fall of the Roman Republic was a Neocon Fall. The neocons switched Rome from being a people to a community. The Roman Empire fell as it took away economic and other freedom to the extent that it couldn’t function and fertility fell below replacement.
Rome became an idea. Once that happened, it fell to real nations, i.e. people with a common ethnicity, genealogy, culture, etc. Proposition Nation is a signal for a non-nation that is being destroyed by real nations, real people aka as vibrant. When they are vibrant, and we are a proposition nation, then we are on our way out, proposition and people alike.